No government has fought corruption like Buhari in Nigeria… Adeniran

Comrade Debo Adeniran, is an activist and executive chairman, Centre For Anti Corruption and Open Leadership (CACOL). In this interview with INIOBONG IWOK, Adeniran assesses the anti graft war of the President Muhammadu Buhari led All Progressives Congress (APC) administration and the performance of democracy in the country.

What is your view on the anti graft war of this administration?
We cannot assess the Buhari administration on corruption in isolation; corruption is endemic in Nigeria and it has always been there from the beginning, it did not start now it as has been happening.

The colonialist left it with us; the institution of corruption has been for long, even during the colonial era.

The colonialist introduced corruption in the country, they taught our people the act and they exploited the vulnerable people because they realised we were cheap and we could be used as cheap labour.

They appointed the traditional rulers and gave them so much power and they served their interest.

They could behead anyone and they gave chieftaincy titles to their cronies and co-served with the white men to exploit the people.

What we have now is neo colonialism; they are exploiting us in another form. You cannot contest election and win in Nigeria if you are not money bag or children of the elite.

They gave us the Richardson, the Republican and the rest of the constitutions which did not protect the weak, but made the rich and influential more powerful and only them would be able to win elections in the country.

A society that is not equal, where the rich are the ones in control of the people and they put a mechanism in place where the rich becomes richer and are not yielding to the demands of the poor, then they make electoral contest a mechanism for for the highest bidder, why should it be so?

You cannot contest election and win in Nigeria if you don’t have money, even those controlling the parties it is because they have the resources.

You now have Buhari who came before others, what happened was that Babangida legalised corruption in this country, during his regime; he gave them free hand to operate, but he would later catch you on it.

Obasanjo tried in fighting corruption: but he wanted to satisfy his friends and Amnesty International; he set up the anti-corruption agencies, ICPC and EFCC, but they were poorly funded and it affected their performance.

He introduced kick back and ten percent in contract. The anti graft agencies were supposed to have units in most agencies, but they could not because of lack of funds and equipment.

That makes the EFCC to take up corruption cases, because the ICPC were always complaining of lack of funds.

When Jonathan took office, because of the nature in which he assumed office he owed so many people obligations and had to bend for several of them to perpetrate corruption, most of his ministers were not supervised by him:

What happened then was that they would just allocate funds to a ministry and there was no proper monitoring mechanism on how the funds are utilised and the National Assembly was just a figure head.

The other administration that would have fought corruption was the Umaru Yar’Adua administration, but he was sick and did not stay long in power;

the few time he spent in government we saw how some people like Iyabo Obasanjo Bello, Aborishade and Adenike Grange were investigated and prosecuted by the anti graft agency. When he died Jonathan was not ready to fight corruption and so corruption became democratic again.

Then came Buhari’s administration, when you assess what have been done by the previous administrations in terms of fighting corruption, you would realise that Buhari is the best so far, he has tried with the BVN initiative, it has checked a lot of leakages:

what often happen is that the ministers open several bank accounts and used it to perpetuate fraud, but with the introduction of the BVN their biometric could be identified easily.

He set up designated courts to try corruption cases, unlike before now, corruption cases are taken to obscure courts; but now we know the courts fighting corruption and this would help solve the problem.

But the opposition party says they are being targeted?
Do you believe that? Who are the opposition people that have not been tried? Do you know that a lot of people working with him are been investigated, he is not the court he cannot arrest and investigate people or arrest people.

For example, Babachir lawal was removed, while Maina was also sacked, he ordered the anti corruption agencies to investigate them, what else do you expect him to do? He did not order the judges’ house raid; it is the agencies that have the power to do what they have done.

What is happening now, the DSS and EFCC are part of the presidency, the inter agencies rivalry is expected especially in this system, we have to realise that Nigerian democracy is just growing and you cannot compare our democracy to that of US.

But people think he has been soft on those close to him, in terms of the anti graft fight?
Do you know that some retired generals are being investigated?

The administration is doing a lot, he has called the retired soldier to order, for the first time in the history of Nigerian judiciary, judges houses were raided, this is unprecedented in the country.

He has set up a committee to monitor the anti corruption cases and set up special court to fight corruption, this would aid the judicial process and help the implementation of the administration’s criminal justice act.

It is still part of the growing process; you cannot expect our democracy to be like that of America, they have been in this for long.

Would you support Buhari’s second term bid?
We have not made up our mind yet on Buhari’s second term bid, I have told you, Buhari may not be the best for us. But for now he is still the best in terms of fighting corruption.

We can’t support him for now, but as time goes on I am sure we would have a clearer picture of event. What we are saying is that nobody in the history of the country has done what he is doing in terms of fighting corruption.

Either it is Buhari or not, we are not saying we would support him or not, we just want the anti corruption war to continue.

We are not saying we want him back, if there is anyone who would fight corruption and be ready to serve the people we would support him.

It is not about Buhari; it is that he is the best in the country so far, that is why we are supporting him for now.

Nigerians are worried that progress in terms of dividends of democracy has been slow, how do you react?
I have said it; that it is like we have a carryover from pre-colonial days to neo colonial day. We are still struggling to come to terms with ourselves on what democracy is about.

At this centre we disagree with the definition of democracy, I mean the definition as popularised by Abraham Lincoln; it is backward, our children would not understand the meaning.

What is the essence of democracy if government cannot implement the budget, the people cannot fulfill their dreams, is not as if they are asking for a life of Eldorado, just basic means of livelihood and successive governments have failed them.

We need a redefinition of democracy in Nigeria and what it means; perhaps government needs to understand their roles to the citizenry.

Democracy should make government meet the needs of the people, if you say democracy is about election, that mean democracy has failed us, because our people don’t elect their representatives on free will, the system is compromised.

We do not deserve to be where we are now; we need to redesign our system to fit us and the reason why things are like this is because Nigerians are not asking questions and asking relevant questions on what the law says.

But there have been calls for restructuring as a way out?
I don’t think so. The problem of Nigeria is not the structure it is the history. You talk about unitary system that we are practicing, is it not working in other countries?

It is about the needs of the majority of people in flood ravaged areas, educational system that is not working, poor health centers or in most case it is not existing, poor security, the purpose of any government is to meet the needs of the people.

The purpose of every government is to take care of the security and welfare of the people and anything without that is a failure.

What we need is to have a sovereign national conference that would meet the needs of the people.

Let the people determine what they want from the country.

Others have said what we need is a referendum?
You can’t have a referendum, it is not even provided for in the constitution, what we need to do is to get the view of Nigerians from the local government, CDA and state and sort the views of people.

I have said it that having a sovereignty national conference is the beginning of resolving our problems as a nation.

Nobody would say he is disenchanted, sovereign national conference is the solution to our problems, without that we would only he tolerating ourselves, the present strife would continue, the problem would continue.

Do you believe in the 1999 constitution?
The present constitution is faulty, it is not working, the people are alienated and the electoral process is faulty, weak and bad, it is anti people, how can you ask me to pay tax when I provide my security, light water and gutter.

I cannot call this a constitution, it was not there when Obasanjo was released, it was the making of the military and as you can see most Nigerians do not believe in it.

There must be a sovereign constitutional conference when everyone every would sit down and we discuss and have a national ideology.

We can decide that anyone corrupt should be arrested and put behind the wall, while school children are allowed to go and visit them and they should be labeled.

Corruption should be taught in schools, ordinarily, if you eliminate corruption in the country most of the problems would be solved.

What is your view of INEC?
I can’t believe in INEC; I don’t know what is happening in INEC, it is not performing because it is not for the masses: the elites are the ones deciding the fate of the masses.

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Either it is Buhari or not, we are not saying we would support him or not, we just want the anti corruption war to continue. We are not saying we want him back, if there is anyone who would fight corruption and be ready to serve the people we would support him. It is not about Buhari; it is that he is the best in the country so far, that is why we are supporting him for now.