PIB will change narrative in Nigeria’s Oil Sector – Senator Sabi

The Senate last week rolled out the drums to celebrate its mid-term in the present democracy under the leadership of Senator Bukola Saraki. The spokesman, Senator Abdullahi Sabi, in this interview with Daily Times crew of Tony Amokeodo, the Bureau Chief, Olufemi Samuel and Chris Emetor examines the nuances of critical issues in the Senate, concluding that the 8th Senate has excelled more than the expectations of many.

The Senate just had its two years anniversary. What experience have you gathered as the spokesman?
Let me say first and foremost that being the spokesman of the Senate, I will say that I see it as a very rare privilege and a very rare opportunity to serve.

I say this, looking at the pedigree and caliber of people that constitute the 8th Senate of the Federal Republic of Nigeria and given the fact that I am just coming into politics and contesting for the Senate for the first time.

I feel very privileged and I am indeed grateful to the leadership of the Senate and the 108 Senators for finding me worthy to speak on their behalf at this level. In terms of doing my job, it has been a tough and complex one no doubt, but I have decided to simplify it for myself.

In handling this task, I have tried as much as possible to be factual in what I say, never to distort and never to incite, but to choose my words and make statements that will help to promote the very essence of the Institution and I think to the best of my knowledge, that is what I have been doing so far.

I will humbly add that quite a number of my colleagues have been very supportive. In any programme that I appear, they give me feedback, they tell me well done, we listened to you and you are doing very well and we are proud to have you as our spokesman.

There’s split in the house. Both the majority APC Senators and the minority PDP Senators are working in harmony and I think that has strengthened me and added confidence to me as I do this job knowing that those who asked me to do this job are following whatever it is that I say and, they are magnanimous enough to even give me feedback which, in almost all cases have been positive.

The Senate appears to be moving at a very fast pace lately with the passage of very strategic bills one of which is the Mutual Assistance in Criminal matters and other Foreign matters Bill. Can you elucidate on what the Bill sets to achieve for the public to pick the import?
Like you rightly said, this is one of the Anti-Corruption Bills. I recall last month I was asked by the media why the Senate is not supportive of the Anti-Corruption fight and I told them that the subject of Anti-Corruption is complex and interconnected.

Any bill that is being sent on that subject is not a bill that you can close your eyes and pass in a hurry because it deals with criminal matters. And I am told by lawyers that it is worst and tragic to incarcerate one innocent person when compared to freeing a thousand criminals.

If that maxim is correct and I believe it is, because in many instances one wrong incarceration has led to mayhem beyond imagination. So for us in the Senate we have a legislative agenda which had very clear objectives that we are going to reform the National Assembly by looking at things that ought to be done better. We are going to improve good governance, which is one of the cardinal things we want to do.

We’re going to look at Constitutional amendment, Electoral reform, and a reform of the Anti-Corruption system, and on the basis of that we said we are going to have what we call a priority list.

We are also going to look at our economy with the aim of diversification, shifting attention away from the unfortunate over dependence on oil. Within this context, we have tried to bring in all of these objectives which at any rate leads to the core mandates of the government which is security, economy and Anti-Corruption.

So when these Bills were brought, they were read and debated a second time and then referred to the joint Committee on Judiciary and human rights, Foreign Affairs and Anti-Corruption.

What this means is that every Committee has an angle from which to look at it.

That bill went through the process of public hearing so that at the end of the day, we will also look at how offensive it is going to be to our constitution, because it is a bill for example that has to do with foreign countries.

Our sovereignty is something we must never toy with. The committee has done their due diligence, and of course they also found out in the Bill that there is something called ‘coercive’ or so where in their wisdom, they felt that if that clause was left like that, it would mean that those who will be unfortunate to meet the full effect of that provision may find themselves tortured and, the Constitution is against torture.

So the committee rejected that clause which by the way was the only clause that was rejected and at the end of the day, that bill was passed.

The bill is saying we should facilitate the provision and obtaining by Nigeria of international mutual assistance in criminal matters.

That is the overall goal and the key objective include the provision and obtaining of evidence and statement from persons, the making of arrangements for persons to give evidence or assist in criminal investigations and all other various provisions that are designed to get this mutual assistance.

And the Mutual Assistance means that if Nigeria wants to get such evidence from other countries, they should be able to get it and vice versa. It’s to strengthen our Anti-Corruption laws with other countries.

The import of the bill is that it will give investors more confidence and impetus to do business with Nigerians because they know that if anybody decides to be over smart, there is a law that he can depend on for justice to be meted out.

Why did the PIGB take more than 10 years to get passed?
This is one of our priority Bills. We had priority Bills and we came up with about 11. Two of the 11 Bills had just been signed by the Acting President.

So, at the end of the day, by virtue of this bill, small and medium industries will be able to use their moveable assets (like car, fridge, camera etc) and register it in the moveable assets register and at the end of the day, you can use it to secure a loan for working capital.

So these are some of the things the Senate has been able to achieve. It shows that from the beginning and with our courageous leaders, we have set a path for our own success.

What happens now to the Bill after you have passed it, what’s the next step?
It is important for Nigerians to understand how the legislature works. What we operate is a bicameral legislature. When a particular chamber goes through the mill to pass a Bill, it has reduced the workload for the other Chamber.

The other Chamber will look at it and if there is any contentious issue detected, they will point that out and pass it with an amendment.

The two chambers would then ask for a conference, which is usually a rare thing. Having gone through the mills the two Chambers will go for concurrence, and concurrence is always faster. We have over 40 bills from the House of Representatives that we have concurred to. So that is the way it works.

Now, let me add that the Senate President all along has been more passionate about having this Bill passed. But before, many people tend to accuse him wrongly, thinking that he sat over the Bill.

In what way do you think the PIGB will change the narrative in the petroleum sector in Nigeria?
The passage has already changed the narrative.

How?
It is because of that the passage is being applauded in the industry and that is a positive sign. I will tell you that within the context of government business, the moment a positive development like this is thrown out and you see the entire industry smiling, praising it, then you should know that the right thing has been done within the confines of those who will be affected by the Bill.

On this note it is very clear that we have introduced a robust framework that will guarantee on very sustainable basis a transparent, innovative, operative, effective petroleum industry.

All ambiguities have been removed. All cul -de -sacs have been opened. Where there were no pathways, pathways have been created.

This is what this Bill seeks to achieve so that at the end of the day operators of all forms across the spectrum of petroleum industry sector value chain will know that this is the Bill that they can depend on because it has guaranteed them certain things, and this is just a part of it.

The other parts have already been introduced and the exact process we have used which includes; consultations, engagements, negotiations and understanding will also be done so that at the end of the day, everybody will have a win-win situation.

I think that is what is important, it is not going to be a winner takes it all or a looser looses it all, no. It is a win-win situation because we believe there’s something in it for everybody and we have to guarantee that.

If the Senate has started moving fast in passage of important Bills, why the foot drag on Constitution amendment initiative?
We need to understand issues. If it is dragging as far as I am concerned, dragging is not a problem. You see, democracy is an interesting concept and it is guided by very fundamental principles.

In everything we do in a democracy, there must be legitimacy; there must be legality and mandate. These three things are incontrovertible, without them you have something else not a democratic process.

So the process of Constitutional amendment is not something that happens like going to the market to go and shop, you negotiate, you pay and come out, no. There must be engagement with stakeholders.

I must tell you that having realised how tedious the process could be, that explains why the Committee for the Constitutional amendment was set up.

We need to respect the fact that whatever that was done in the past was done for and on behalf of all Nigerians, but are there one or two changes and that’s what we looked at.

So far, we have had two retreats in Lagos and Abuja, and had several meetings in between, considering clause by clause on all the issues. So for us in the 8th Senate, we have reached our own level.

But you see, the process of Constitutional amendment means that the National Assembly will now transmit a harmonised version of its own amendment to the 36 state Houses of Assemblies.

It cannot be the Senate version or the House of Representatives version, so the Senate version is waiting for harmonization with the House of Representatives who are still in the process of doing their own.

So that is what you call the foot dragging. The Senate has gone very far. If it was just the Senate process then I would have told you that we would have gone ahead to pass what we have, then transmit it to the 36 state Houses of Assemblies for their own concurrence and whatever comes back based on two-third majority becomes what will now receive final amendment.

So, this is why you thought there is foot dragging. There is no foot dragging. There is work in progress and the beauty of it all is to get the best out of it.

For the first time in the history of this country, the NASS was able to make public its budget especially after much noise by the civil society groups and NGOs, would you say that NASS was hounded to do so?
Hounded by who?

By the Nigerian public, through the Civil Society groups and others.
Most of the people you talk about do not have the legitimacy, the legality and the mandate, so they couldn’t have hounded us.

But they brought the issue to the front burner.
That’s what they want you to believe, but let me tell you, as far as I am concerned the idea of looking at NASS budget and reforming negates whatever noise they are making.

For the 8th Senate, immediately we came, the very first thing the Senate leadership did was to appoint a Committee to prepare our legislative agenda and in that agenda we said we are going to improve on whatever we are doing.

We wanted to improve on our processes and how we do our things as well as improve on the budget reform, so it is a holistic thing.

We set the idea and the target for ourselves and it is within that context that the Senate President when asked by the various Civil Society Organizations, said we already had taken a decision to do that but at the right time, we are going to make it public. If we were under pressure we would have settled it last year.

You see, it was a process with due respect from the fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh Senate. Nigerians have to understand that when this particular republic came, the National Assembly had nothing on the ground for them to work with after it boarded.

They started from nothing. If there was no commitment on the part of lawmakers despite nothing to build on, we wouldn’t have achieved what we achieved today. So the various core centers of this NASS was determined by the activities of these past Assemblies that people want to vilify.

When we came on board, we began to firm up and understand the core centers and the core drivers, because it is the core centers and the core drivers that determine what your core structures will look like. For me, I don’t see anything wrong in that.

Nobody could have hounded us; if we were not interested in opening it up nobody will force us because they have nothing to do to us. So we are not under any pressure and as part of the process, many of us having now began to address and understand what these things are, if you ask me, the National Assembly is under funded. It is an arm of government for God’s sake.

If you’re having three people to watch one another, you must not over power me and I must not overpower you. Then you can’t be stronger than me and expect there will be equity.

If we want to face the reality, the kind of money the executive is getting is many times larger than what we are getting. Out of 100 percent, the executive gets 95 percent.

For the purpose of argument take it that both the National Assembly and the judiciary are getting 2.5% each, but in reality it is not up to that. We need to be fair to ourselves.

Whatever we are doing, let’s look at the process of institution building. For the 8th Senate, we have realised that all the experiences of the past, Senate must come to bear and we must give them credit for making whatever mistakes they had made and from which we have started learning because without those mistakes we will seem to be liable to making the same mistakes.

So I think there’s nothing lost here. For me I think we are on the right track.

What have you to say about the speculations on the fat salaries of Senators, allegedly running into about N49 million?
How I wish it is true. You see, that is a very unfortunate perception issue. Ever since, I had concluded that no matter what you say, those who have chosen not to believe will not believe.

The 8th Senate started on a rough note giving the impression that all may never be well between the Senate and the Executive arms. Today, we are seeing a kind of normalised relationship, how have the two arms been able to handle it?
The fundamental issue is simply that democracy said the three arms of government; the executive, the legislature, and the Judiciary must be independent of one another.

In being independent of one another, you must exercise checks and balances, but at the same time, if you check the spirit, the advantage of the three arms lies more with the National Assembly because that is where the people are represented.

Whatever it is that is the mood of the people is what we must reflect. So if something is wrong we must say it is wrong. Are we saying nobody can be wrong or does it mean that if something comes from the President, it may not be wrong?

I will give you a classical example. For the NDDC, the rejection of President Muhammadu Buhari’s nominee by the Senate came as a result of offending the Federal character and the provisions of the law, which says you, should nominate people from the oil producing areas.

Can somebody who is not from oil producing area lay claim that he is from the oil producing area? That is just a clear thing. I think we must begin to appreciate things the way they are and value them the way they are.

If we do, we will be making more progress. Nigerians must know that without the National Assembly, maybe by now we would have been in Obasanjo’s dictatorial regime because he wanted a third term.

If he had gotten it, only God knows what would have happened. There are countries that have only one Parliament and when the President gets the Parliament to do what they want, it ends there and there’s nothing else anyone can do about it.

So the wisdom behind our own democracy, those who crafted it did a wonderful job and I don’t think that anybody has a better option and solution. So if we can adjust, respect and tolerate ourselves, engage ourselves and listen to ourselves more, we will be better off.

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you should know that the right thing has been done within the confines of those who will be affected by the Bill. On this note it is very clear that we have introduced a robust framework that will guarantee on very sustainable basis a transparent, innovative, operative, effective petroleum industry. All ambiguities have been removed. All cul -de -sacs have been opened. Where there were no pathways, pathways have been created