Nigeria needs more organisations like ‘Amotekun’ if it wants to end insecurity- Baiyesha

John Baiyesha, an Ilorin based constitutional lawyer and Senior Advocate of Nigeria (SAN) recently headed the panel that investigated and exonerated the former Kogi State deputy governor of allegations against him. In this interview he provides legal perspectives to some burning issues in the polity. He also spoke about the recent Imo State gubernatorial election judgement by the Supreme Court, among other issues. PATRICK OKOHUE reports.

*********What is your take on the Supreme Court verdict in the Imo State gubernatorial election?

You see ordinary people may not understand how the person that came fourth in the election would now be become the first person and declared winner of the election. But based on the results presented, it means that he was actually supposed to be the first but he was manipulated to the fourth position. Judges act on evidence, because the result from 388 polling units shows that he had more than two hundred thousand votes. If you add that to 98,000 votes which was initially recorded for him, it means that he was the one who initially won that governorship election.

So that is it.  People may not understand, you would have to go to the evidence provided and what the law says. People may not know this but you have to juxtapose this with the law. Those who know how to enjoy victory should also learn how to enjoy defeat.

You may ask why I am talking like this. Look at Zamfara State case it was a total removal of elected officials there, including the governor, the House of Assembly members, all of them.

 In a clean sweep the Supreme Court threw them away and installed another set of people who were defeated in the field in the elections.

 So, the cry now I don’t understand. That is my position. I want to go by the evidence presented to the Supreme Court. I am not surprised by the judgement; the law work with evidence.

*************But there have been talks that the number of registered voters may be less than the number of declared votes. How do you see that?

I don’t know about that.  If there was anything like that I hope it was presented that may be the reason why it was cancelled.

388 polling units is quit a sizeable number and if the irregularity which made INEC cancel the results in the first place was so overbearing what they would have done was to hold a rerun election before they can declare somebody a winner.

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Look at the case of Osun State; they had to declare a rerun election in seven polling units. It means you want to throw away over two hundred thousand votes in this Imo case, and that is even votes recorded for Uzodinma and not for other parties. If the votes cast are more than the registered voters in that place, if you are to nullify the elections and you have to declare somebody a winner you have to hold fresh elections in 388 polling units.

***************Are you saying a rerun should have been a better judgment?

Yes, if there has been evidence that the total votes cast was more than the registered voters, but what the supreme Court said was that the votes was too much to be ignored. Do you understand? I think if INEC says the results do not match with the registered voters then they should have gone back to hold another election. 

**************What does the electoral laws says in regard to cancelling of election results and the role of the presiding officer?

Ones the Presiding Officer certify a results; he would pass it over to the INEC office. However, in this case INEC cancelled results in the 388 polling units, but it is the Presiding Officer who is on the field that can cancel results because he knows how the election went. Apart from that the only authority that can cancel election results is the Court or tribunal, but I don’t know the evidence this people presented.

Of course the Tribunal agreed with them, the Court of Appeal agreed with them, but the Supreme Court said no. I am just talking about the magnitude of votes cancelled in these polling units, which the Supreme Court said was too much to be cancelled.

**************Is there a precedent on this Emeka Ihedioha and Hope Uzodinma case in Imo State?

Yes, there is a precedent on the issue; the Zamfara State case is a precedent that is similar. Look at what happened in Zamfara State; all the Senators, House of Representatives, I mean all elected public officials were sacked and someone who was a distant looser was declared the winner. That is why I am saying those who know how to celebrate victory to high heavens, must know how to celebrate when they lose to high heaven.

************There is a recent issues about the President’s daughter using his official plane for personal use, what does the law say about that?

That is abnormal.  It is wrong; it cannot happen anywhere in the world. In a more civilise society, you cannot do that and get away with it. If the President was travelling with his family that is a different case entirely, but for her to use the presidential jet alone that is an abuse. The President media team can say anything to defend an ugly situation. When they do what is wrong they should be humble enough to admit it.

****************What is your take on ‘Amotekun security network, set up by South West governors, the Federal Government had earlier declared it illegal?

The only thing that the law says you cannot do is that you cannot have regional police. But if you decide to have vigilante is not bad. This would look after the security of the people at the communal level for example, look at Hisbah, they used to have it in Kano, Zamfara, Sokoto, and Niger States.

 They enacted laws to set up even Court for such purpose, but nobody talked about it, and then look at the areas where terrorism is high in the North-East they have Civilian Joint Task Force who are providing security because they know the terrain, they know the area and they can enter the bush. We all know that this is like a guerrilla warfare

These people know the forest, they can go in and know the hiding places of those terrorist. If you have to declare this illegal you have to declare everything illegal and constitutionally, it is not wrong. They are not Police they don’t have powers of police, but they just want to help their people. The Police cannot even enter where they would operate. They would enter the bushes and make sure that people are not kidnapped and taken for ransom, killed, in fact, they should be commended.

****************Recently there has been concern about the independence of the judiciary, some say it has been pocketed by the executive. How do you react?

It would appear to me a criticism taken too far. If you look at me, I cannot join those people to make such comment. I cannot say so, the judgments may not be ok with some people but that is how we are as Nigerians.

But some Judges have shown boldness; look at the Judge in the Omoyele Sowore case, you don’t just take isolated matters and paint the whole system in ugly case. Look at the case in Oyo State; the same Supreme Court delivered judgment in favour of the PDP in the state saving the state from anarchy

Everybody praised them to high heavens then. I think we should be careful not to generalise on issues. I am not saying that they are 100 per cent, are we saying that we have not seen good about some of our Judges who have stood on their feet?

I think if we are saying that they have been compromised we should have facts. I have my own experience of having suffered from a compromised system, but that does not mean I should cast doubt on the whole system.

 **************But some of your colleagues I have spoken to agrees that the judiciary is corrupt, while they also say the process of appointment of judges are questionable. Do you agree?

I agreed with them totally, but what I am saying is that we cannot use that to generalise. I am concerned about appointments in the judiciary, but I cannot condemn the whole system. Appointments in the judiciary is not fair, it is from bottom to top.

We suggested that people from the private bar should be included, but the system said no. I agree that the Judges appointment is faulty in Nigeria. But all the same, when we are talking we have to be specific. The judiciary is a function of the dysfunctional nature of the Nigeria system.

The Nigeria society that we knew under judges like, Kayode Eso, Karibi whyte, Nnamani were fearless and courageous they operated under the military, in fact with all the problems they have had the judiciary appeared to fare better in terms of what they can do under the military than now.

 People try to corrupt current ones and many of them could not resist; that is why I say we should not generalise so that we would not be guilty of blaming the whole. There is no doubt that the system is crumbling down and the standard of everything is going down even governance and education.

***********What is your take on President Buhari’s move to set up Special Court for graft cases?

It is not the wool that makes the monk. It is not about creating Special Courts, it is the kind of people you put there. If you create Special Courts and the appointment process is not transparent you would still be in a mess.

Under the present system they would still mess it up. After all Federal High Court started as revenue Court. So look, it is not even the law, we have to start from politicians who are indicted by facing  corruption charges, they do horrible things while in office and you still allow such people to contest and win elections and get to the highest positions in the county, there is no country where it is done.

Which people that wants to make progress are doing what we are doing now?  We would not make progress.

In Britain and America if you are accused of stealing public money you would be put in prison until your case is finished at the Court, but they may fast-tracked your case.

Look at the bad governance going on here; people use influence to frustrate the work here. That is why I say you cannot blame one arm of government.  The move could create more rooms for more judges, but if we don’t deal with the fundamental issue of corruption they would still mess it up at the end of the day.