Anti-corruption: I see Buhari vetoing 2016 budget – Ajasin

Tokunbo Ajasin, son of former governor of old Ondo State and leader of Afenifere, late Chief Michael Adekunle Ajasin is founder of Atayese, a Yoruba self determination group. A former member of the National Economic Intelligence Committee (NEIC) and former chairman of WEMA Bank, in this interview with AKINJIDE AKINTOLA defends President Muhammadu Buhari of allegations of being a tyrant, saying the President is only being driven by passion to redeem the country.

The opposition PDP described President Muhammadu Buhari as a tyrant, following his comments on Media chat on the non-release of suspects despite two or three bail granted them by the courts. How do you this?

I think unfortunately, sometimes the President is too frank; he is not a person who speaks diplomatically but speaks about issues the way it is, the way he feels in his heart. And to some extent, I think that’s one of the reasons people voted for him. Because they want someone who is genuine, someone who speaks his mind; who doesn’t couch his words in language that is politically correct. We have been having people who say things they don’t do but here we have someone who say things as it is, and that’s why he is liable to all accusations. But what he has done or say is not wrong per se because if someone is arrested and granted bail, he can be arrested on another charge. In the past, they put all the charges together and come to court and then the accused gets bail and you are bound to let him go according to the order of the court. Now, that you have been taught lessons, you don’t lump all the charges together. You put some charges first and if he gets bail you put another charge, you don’t let him go. That is what is happening now because they feel that if the accused is granted bail and they let him go, well, he may not come back. This was what the president was trying to say. The reason they are doing that is because of the past, because they have been taught lessons. Why all of a sudden, immediately you are arrested, you say you are ill and you have medical appointment for treatment abroad. Everybody is doing that, having medical treatment abroad; we know it’s a game they all play. Other people would have replied in a diplomatic manner, but he is not known to talk diplomatically. But he has not done anything wrong, there is still lot in where he is going.

Some people even said he should have simply answered that since the case is in court, he would not like to comment?

That’s true because there were a few questions like that which he declined to answer on account of being still in court. But sometimes, you get passionate about something and you say certain things that may get you into this type of controversy.

The President is over seven months in office now, do you see any change yet as promised?

The changes are not coming as fast as we expect but there is a lot going on underneath from what I understand. The only thing is that his cabinet is a departure from the usual. Unfortunately, the long period that was used to put the cabinet into place was too long and I thought he was going to do something extraordinary, but by the time he announced the cabinet, I felt he didn’t need that much time. But in any case, those he chose, I believe they are competent people and they would do something especially in an environment everybody is expecting a difference. The change itself is not evidenced yet but I believe looking at the caliber of people, they should perform. The only other fear I have is that the revenue profile of the country may not be able to achieve what they want to do, but the wastages would be curbed, and the excess spendings.

But in the details of the budget being unveiled, it was discovered that revenue projections for the Presidency in areas like cars, feeding, travels and furniture were much higher than those of former President Goodluck Jonathan for 2015?   

I will be surprised, but honestly, I haven’t gone through the revenue profiles of what he has budgeted, so I can’t really answer that question. But in some statements he said they wanted him to buy cars for N400 but he declined saying the current ones are okay for him; he doesn’t need to buy new vehicles as he can use what other people have used. You know civil servants can put you into trouble if you are not careful. He also spoke about the amount the National Assembly is planning to use in buying cars when they already have transport allowance. So, those things are in the budget and obviously, he is not going to entertain that. And there are other things like that in the budget and would be scrutinised and the budget is either passed or there will be a stalemate because from his reaction I’m envisaging a constitutional crisis where he would refuse to sign and veto the budget while the National Assembly might also override his veto. Then it would now depend on the public support through agitations of the people. And if the people support the National Assembly on the issue then the country deserves what it got. But if the people maintain their stand that no, this is not what you are supposed to be doing, you already have cars, you don’t need other cars, then the President might have his way.

But the legislators are defending it saying the cars are for official duties?

That’s what I mean by being realistic as nobody wants to speak the truth about anything. If you want to use cars for official duties, there are cars in the pool, but you don’t ride it around for leisure. Everyone can’t use them at the same time. And in time of austerity, you can even use your personal cars and have an allowance paid for the use of your car for official duties. It has been done before, before we started buying cars for everybody now. When my dad was a member of parliament many years ago, he got a loan from the bank to buy a car; I don’t know how they arranged it then, maybe the government would guarantee it. That was the car he was also using for his personal duties since they gave him a loan for it and he was paying back. And that’s what they did for every member then, and when there was a coup, I remembered that my sister, a legal practitioner with the government was sent to recover some debts of some MPs who were still owing by the time they were removed from office by the coup. If they can do it then, why not now, especially in view of the lean resources at the moment. This is part of the change being expected. That time there was oil, now we have to cut our coat to our size. It also happened to individuals too when they are no more affluent. You have to cut your expenses and live frugally until you recover. So, this people don’t want to sacrifice anything at all? So, I have every faith in him when it comes to our money; that he would spend so much more than Jonathan. I haven’t seen it, but the civil servants make the budget and I’m sure it’s going to be scrutinized further. The civil servants usually pad the budget but you have to be observant to discover their antics and stop them in order to do the right thing or they will just mess you up.

Many top government officials including state governors have said this year is going to be a very difficult one; with hike in electricity tariff, removal of fuel subsidy and likely cut in the salary of workers or sack; how do you see this against the background of the promised change?

I think he should have labeled his budget: Austerity budget. That’s the way I would have tagged because a lot of things have to be cut, there is no way you can live the same way as before. Look at the states for instance; there are so many states that are still owing salaries. What I see happening is that the government is going to print money, they would just print money and pay and that would increase inflation. So, we are in for a tough time because there is no other way because you have to pay people and there is no source to pay. Money that is not backed by productivity will cause inflation. In terms of the power thing, I don’t know the rational for the increase, but if they can perform with that increase, then it may be okay but if they don’t perform then there is no basis for the increase. Unfortunately, Jonathan had laid a bad precedence in the privatization; I wish he had followed what Obasanjo did in his time; that was the best thing that Obasanjo did when he auctioned the mobile telecommunication system (GSM) licence. It was competitive, it was transparent, everybody saw it, I mean the people bided for it and what you got, you have done your study and you start work. But these people, they just handed things to them because they are big men. Why didn’t they bid the same way it was done with GSM. Yes, we said we want privatization but it was done wrongly. Imagine giving licence to a former head state to give electricity, something he couldn’t do when he was in office. For better service, they would have approached foreign experts who are well known in this area and deal directly with them without going through a middleman like they have done or less; picking people on political patronage who will now go out to look for experts because they don’t have the capital to do it and they are now saying the government should give them money again; the government that you took something from; so, why didn’t the government keep it then? So, if increasing the tariff will make things better then I’m for it, but I have my doubts because they didn’t choose the right people for the job.

What of the fuel subsidy removal?

There have been so many controversies over that. Some people say and I was one of them with that opinion; when Jonathan raising the issue of cost of a litre of fuel. Of course, we did a study on it when I was a member of the National Economic Intelligence Committee (NEIC), one of our members is a petroleum expert and he led us into a study where we found out that the price we are paying for petrol is too high, much higher than we should be paying. This was because they based everything on one product; whereas there are many products that came out from crude. So, if you take all those products that come out as by-products from crude into consideration, the price shouldn’t be that high but if you take only one product and discard the other then it is another thing and that’s what they’ve been doing. So, the price is high and I don’t agree that the price should be that high. So, now that the price has dropped considerably, why should we still be paying the same thing whereas it has been established that the subsidy issue is a fraud. I’m sure it would be revealed within the year, people will know whether they are really paying subsidy or it was just a fraud. Like what he has said now that people should pay N86.50 for petrol and if we got it and we are not paying for subsidy so what happens, so we will find out later. If they are producing from the refineries then the balance to be imported would be straight from the producers rather than through middlemen or third parties. Then the price would be minimal. But the refineries are not working to full capacity because the equipment is old and obsolete, according to Ibe Kachukwu (NNPC MD). So, if they are not producing locally, it would be difficult to meet the target they set for themselves. Don’t forget they want also to reduce transportation cost by transferring it through the depots instead of trucks and the only costs is to police the pipelines. So, if the depots are not working they have to repair them. Its part of the gains, they are not following the old ways, they are doing it differently. These things have always been there but we didn’t consider them, because when you have too much money, you wont consider alternatives.

With all these, do you think Nigerians can have cause to smile at all?

I don’t think so, it will take some time. they’ve wrecked the economy so much so it will take time. it wouldn’t have been so bad if the price of our crude oil was as high as it was before, but now, anybody whoever who you are, whatever you do, if your income is decreased by 50 percent, you have to adjust as it will affect one adversely. So, to that extent, this years has been a tough one for everybody. The more I look at it especially civil servants and salary earners who are not being paid, how are they able to survive? How do we survive? In fact, we are a very resilient people because if you miss one month abroad, your life would be totally disrupted. In fact people will die, but here, somehow the extended family system will come to your rescue to cushion the effects but for how long?

Are you saying the global economic downturn will have devastating effect?

Don’t call it global, it’s not global effect, what we are having is because we don’t plan our economy. It’s not a global problem; those are commodities, that you don’t have control over. You plan fro something that you can control. That’s what we have been doing over they years. And we have to be careful as the oil money is what is binding the country together, if there is no oil money, things will change.

Would this development not affect the promise of the government to the people?

It will definitely affect, no doubt, it will affect but maybe they would do a bit less than they would have done otherwise. I remember the UPN in the Second Republic, they promised the four cardinal programmes if they had won at the federal, but they didn’t. In spite of that, they continued and did it even though somewhat scaled down. I see the same thing happening in this situation, if they can’t do all they start it anyway and it may not be as grand as planned.

Looking at the opposition PDP, are they playing the role expected of them?

As long as they are still in existence, they are there. But many of them, I don’t see them playing any role, they just want to join the mainstream, they are all rushing to the APC except that those who have been so vocal in the past, it will be difficult for them to switch but other than that, many of them are coming to APC. They don’t have any scruples, they have to be with any government in power; it’s a terrible thing. But I wish they would stay where they are and strategise. It wont take long, if people find that the government is not doing well, it wont take time for them to change it. They will capitalise on it to take over, but they must be prepared for it. But unfortunately it is only their own interest that they are after not collective interest. I want to use the defunct UPN as another example. I remembered when the ruling NPN government said they should join them in running the country but the UPN said ‘yes, we can join you only under this condition. We have a programme, would you be willing to implement our programme?’ Of course, the NPN rejected the condition. That is selfless politics for you. You cant see that happening now. Imagine at Akala, a former governor under PDP running from one party to the other. Of course, the main purpose of joining parties is to make money. To them, it is a business, not service. Politics is supposed to be service, a collective interest; that’s what politics should be about, service; by the time you are doing something good and people are feeling it, money is what you don’t think about. But here, money is the main thing. That’s the main attraction.

But some people are now saying that since there is no more money in governance, many will run away from it?

I hope so, that’s why many of them who say they can’t pay salary should resign and leave the place because it’s what ought to have been clear all along. This getting money from the federal government and distributing it without looking inside is not it at all and that is why we are in this problem. They just go to Abuja every month to collect money and distribute it the way they want. But if the governor knows he has to look for money to pay salaries, he will sit up. But they don’t do that, they just spend money anyhow. Just because the money comes easily, but when you have to tax people, you will know you will have to perform unlike when money comes like manna from heaven. Money they get from the federal should be like a bonus and used for capital purposes, recurrence should be sourced internally. If you can’t sustain your staff with the resources available to you, then what are you there for? It can’t continue like this, people have to change. People might say you are saying this because you are not government but if you have a cause going into government, do it and make a difference. But it becomes more difficult when you have to pauperise people, they can’t provide food, they can’t send their children to school, the home will not be happy and they will do anything to save the situation. That’s the situation they’ve reduced us to. I remembered during the Babangida era, there used to be a vibrant middle class, but they wiped that away and people are now suffering to get food and ready to do anything for mere change to keep body and soul together. And when they get there they will loot the treasury and you can’t have the courage to complain since you’ve taken something from them. But we have to be ready to sacrifice something. For it is s short while if we are ready; genuine people will promise free education and health and you don’t have to bother yourself about school fees and health care through insurance. And then create jobs, if these are out then what remains is food. But when they don’t do that and you have to cater for all these things yourself, it becomes difficult and they know it, that’s why they make it like that so that you will be coming to their house to beg them for money everything. This is what we should get into the heads of our people if they don’t know. I’m happy that Buhari finally got there, this is man you know has integrity, he should get some other people like him to help him and then you will see that there will be a change.